Calea Z. and Silene Capensis...anybody else not notice any effects?

[Alchemist]

Yes intitally I tried it as a tea but as the dosae went up I couldn t drink it any longer. So I extracted it with various solvents and ingested the residue left after evaroration. After that failure i resorted to varourising the residue. The plant was from Gomaos which I think originally came from Torsten.

[gtarman]

I have 24 capsules of 10:1 Calea extract on the way, so I'm soon to begin experimenting again...hopefully with noticeable effects this time <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_cool.png

[mindperformer]

@ Alchemist: The Chontal distinguish at least two strains or variations of Calea z. ("good" and "bad" ones), which differentiate in potency, and they also have a name for the potent one: Thle-pela-kano (leaf of god). There have been identified different chemical races (Díaz 1979: 79*).

It is possible that sometimes the leaves of Calea cordifolia (syn. C. jamaicensis) are sold as Calea zacatechichi (syn. C. ternifolia, C. ternifolia var. ternifolia, C. rugosa).

Calea jamaicensis syn. C. cordifolia:

http://chalk.richmon...is_4850_01s.JPG

In Mexico an alcoholic extract was made from the related Calea urticifolia var. axillaris, and drunk as intoxicant.

And there have been described many variations of Calea zacatechichi:

C.z. var. calyculata

C.z. var. laevigata

C.z. var. macrophylla

C.z. var. rugosa

C.z. var. xanthina

C.z. var. zacatechichi (syn. ternifolia, syn. rugosa)

C.z. var. zacatechichi f. 'Guadalajara'

There were found new germacranolides, only from the variation C. ternifolia var. calyculata, not from C. ternifolia var. ternifolia, which was also analyzed in this study:

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/np50021a012

It is important NOT to work with heat over 30°C at evaporation in the extraction process, because some constituents might vaporize...

Edited October 7, 2012 by mindperformer

[mindperformer]

According to the Chontal a perfect dose is around 60g of the leaves

In the internet you find yellow and white flowering Calea zacatechichi- strains, some with broad leaves, some with narrower, small leaves, and some smell while others does not,

and some are much more bitter than others- also in my experience...

It should have white flowers, smaller leaves (also depends on humidity) and a strong smell and taste.

http://ph.ansp.org/image_viewer.php?barcode=00021798

Edited October 7, 2012 by mindperformer

[Auxin]

But isnt that fresh weight?

[mindperformer]

This is Calea urticifolia:

http://chalk.richmond.edu/flora-kaxil-kiuic/c/calea_urticifolia_4952_01s.JPG

[mindperformer]

It should be dried weight

[mindperformer]

The real Zacatechichi: Calea ternifolia var. ternifolia

http://chalk.richmond.edu/flora-kaxil-kiuic/c/calea_ternifolia.html

But I think this species on ebay is another variation:

http://www.ebay.at/itm/Calea-zacatechichi-Dream-Herb-Medicinal-Seeds-/140860309016?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20cbedbe18#ht_2597wt_1163

Edited October 7, 2012 by mindperformer

[vadub]

This is Calea ternifolia sourced from the US Botanical Gardens in Washington, D.C.

Pics were taken about a month and a half ago, the plant has gotten much taller and bushed out. Looked like it was going to flower but less than ideal sun exposure and cooler temps stalled things a bit.

I handed it over to a friend that takes care of a huge public neotropical greenhouse exhibit who will put it in the ground there. I hope to get some nice pics of it flowering in the next several weeks.

Close up of the original cutting

Edited October 7, 2012 by vadub

[Alchemist]

Has anyone here got the yellow flowering version of C.Z.?

[mindperformer]

Casimiroa edulis- leaves are used in mexican folk medicine for regulation and stimulation of dreams (ARGUETA V. et al. 1994: 1413*).

[gtarman]

I have 24 capsules of 10:1 Calea extract on the way, so I'm soon to begin experimenting again...hopefully with noticeable effects this time <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_cool.png

 

So I've been playing around with this. Recommended dose was 2 capsules, didn't do jack. So I upped it to 5 capsules, also nothing. I might try 8-10 but tbh I think if I was gonna get anything 5 should have done it.

I'm calling nonsense on this plant (or at least every variation of it that I've ever tried).

[vadub]

I'm calling nonsense on this plant (or at least every variation of it that I've ever tried).

 

Not positive what the rules are regarding discussing effects or the specific use of plants but..

When you find an active cutting there is no doubt of its efficacy. I've gotten a couple other people to bio-assay my clone (1 leaf quidded) before heading to sleep. Without being prompted their responses the next day were along the lines of, "you have got to be kidding me." Yes one leaf not grams of dried material. No doubt there are plenty of bitter, astringent almost menthol tasting alkaloids in this clone.

Might as well mention that Calea zacatechichi is a synonym for Calea ternifolia. C. ternifolia is used prior in literature. If you have the the ubiquitous branching triangular shaped leaf clone no its probably not going to do anything as it is shown to most likely not even be the correct species.

[Auxin]

Its really unfortunate that C. ternifolia is apparently the proper name, because zacatechichi is just cooler. There should be an awesomeness exemption in name priorities.

As for rules about discussion of plants uses, this is an ethnobotany forum, plant usess are the right thing to be talking about <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_biggrin.png

In your potent 1 leaf quid, just what size is the fresh leaf? And is there a ideal minimum of time to keep it in the mouth?

[vadub]

I just give a leaf a couple quick chews (something the length of a house key) and hold it in my cheek or under my tongue until the bitterness dissipates after 10 min or so letting the saliva work its way into the membranes.

Heres an idea of how big the plant is now, easily over 5 feet and getting even bushier. WIll go into the ground soon at 80 degrees Fahrenheit and 90% RH year round

Edited October 25, 2012 by vadub

[mindperformer]

it looks like the real zacatechichi / ternifolia (I also prefer zacatechichi ;-))

seems like the constituents are well absorbed by the oral mucosa, like Salvia d.

[vadub]

Here is a side by side comparison of the falsely labeled Calea and the active Calea ternifolia. Both are growing in a hydroponics set-up and thus the false Calea is getting huuge leaves compared to what it looks like in soil. The differences though are still clarifying to some degree.

The correct version is on the right.

[mindperformer]

thanks for the pic,

it can be seen that the real zacatechichi not only has narrower leaves but also a more coarse surface and not as big parallel veins emerging from the leafbase as the other variety

Edited November 7, 2012 by mindperformer

[mindperformer]

very interesting documentation of a zulu ritual with beer

...looks like the Xhosa- ubulawu (dream medicine):

Edited February 26, 2013 by mindperformer

[Thelema]

seriously, I don't know why people bother wiath Calea and Silensis. Synaptilolepsis kirkii is a much more powerful and predictable oneirogen, and contains KirkiiA, whih is a small molecule neural growth stimulator.

[mindperformer]

does Synaptolepsis also has non-dream effects on you?

[Auxin]

Have Synaptolepis kirkii seeds ever turned up in the community? I've never seen anyone trading them.

[gtarman]

Hmmm...interesting. I'd never even heard of Synaptolepis kirkii before now. Do you know if it even propagates by seed usually? I can't see seeds available anywhere online, couple places seem to sell powdered root though.

While I'm at it I'm also looking into a coupe of other oneirogens if anybody has any experiences to share - I'm growing white sapote, which I think PH said is one, and thinking of Entada rheedii (sorry if I spelled that incorrectly, cbf checking).

[shonman]

tried Calea Z a few times,.......I did have lucid dreams......

Not like the ones in the link below though...

..........

gtarman said.....

An interesting addition to the conversation: as I scrolled through the substances in Erowid's "Experience Vault", I was kinda shocked and amused to see "cheese" listed there. So I went ahead and read a CHEESE TRIP REPORT hahah. For those who are curious this is it: http://www.erowid.or...xp.php?ID=92001

After wiki'ing the shit out of it, it turns out that yep, cheese can be a dream-potentiator: http://en.wikipedia....ect_on_dreaming

................................

There are references to 'cheesing', but they mean something else.....

......here is an animated recreation of the effects of 'cheesing'.......warning....contains major boobage!

 

Edited April 17, 2013 by shonman

[mindperformer]

cheese contains high amounts of the neurotransmitter-precursor amines Tyrosine, Tyramine and Phenylethylamine, also the opioid peptides beta-Casomorphin-5 and -7.