Fungi Induced Paralysis

[alkatrope]

Foaf has not found it entirely uncommon to experience a significant muscle weakness the day after ingesting Subaeruginosa.

Very recetly, though, foaf ingested the mentioned and for maybe fifteen minutes experienced almost complete muscle paralysis, to the point where they collapsed to the ground and could not even clutch the grass to pull themselves forward. They were carried inside by a friend, and after laying on the couch for a while movement gradually returned.

During the paralysis, the mind was completely aware of what was happening and thought was not significantly impaired; although this was unclear for a short while as foaf had difficulty moving their tongue/lips to alert the friend they were ok.

The next day they had fairly strong muscle fatigue, making it difficult to fully close fingers and such. It is three days since ingestion, and the lower legs are very sore and tender, as if bruised (but full movement has returned).

foaf was curious if anyone here could give any feedback, share personal similar experiences, give info if psiloc(yb)in interfers with any other neurotransmitter like glutamate, or anything of the like - as foaf and myself have never heard of any such occurrence.

Thanks.

Edited July 25, 2006 by alkatrope

[Torsten]

the same process that keeps you from acting out your dreams while you are asleep appears to also be active at certain stages of a mushroom trip. wobbly knees and the inability to clench a fist are early symptoms of this process. quite possibly connected to serotonergic activity.

[alkatrope]

Yes wobbly legs/knees were followed by complete paralysis.

Interesting theory, thanks

[-YT-]

FOAF has also experienced paralysis from ingesting Subaeruginosa, told me of one recent experience where he ingested quite a large amount and had very intense journey which involved a strong case of paralysis and was unable to move and or walk for sometime during the journey. Also after the journey he lost/ was unable to regain the use of his hands and fingers for almost 6hours! said it was hilarious riding the train home trying to put his ear phones on in that state which took him a good 15mins or so

[nabraxas]

same here. a friend has been unable to walk, & lost hand control quite a few times on subs.

it's been brought up here before, & it's been suggested that low blood sugar levels combined w/the (usually) cold climate at the time were partly responsable.

look here

[wandjina]

Not sure I'm adding anything relevant here, but features of 'alien abduction' phenomena come to mind...as is well known, 'conscious' paralysis is frequently experienced by abductees, and is sometimes associated with somatic symptoms the day or so after not unlike those described above.

Often this is taken as indicative of being tinkered with or having some procedure performed on ones person...my own view is that 'abduction' is a (post)modern manifestation of something more interesting than the pan-galactic experimentation of technologically advanced anal-probers, and shares some characterisitics with other states that stimulate, and are concomitantly mediated by (at least on the bio-psycho-pharmacological level), serotonergic activity.

Indeed, the similarity between some characteristics of abduction and psychedelic experiences can be uncanny, and I think what it might come down to is these states represent or symbolise, or simply are, transformative/metamorphic process(es) working on levels more subtle, yet necessarily intertwingled, with the kind of explanations and etiologies provided by a predominantly bio-physical perspective.

Of course, I'm preaching to the converted here

[PD.]

Yeah i also know a friend that gets this from mushies. He is a really big guy weighing any where between 120 and 140kg. We thought it strange that he was getting this off the same dose as the other 80-90kg individuals, albeit a large dose. We just put it down to his extremely unhealthy lifestyle that involves alot of rest, couch, computers games, pot and take away food(usually the drive thru variety)

He said it wasnt really bad, more annoying

Edited July 26, 2006 by Passive backseat demon engine.

[alkatrope]

Yeah more annoying was also correct for foaf at the time.

Although it could have been bad, luckily he was only in the driveway at the time so his friend didn't have to carry him far, and lucky it was 1+am, so no one saw him collapsed on the ground for 10-15 minutes.

If it had've happened somewhere far(ish) from home, or in a public place, it could have been a disaster.

Interesting to hear this is not an uncommon occurence, thanks everyone for the feedback (and sorry if it's been brought up before).

[Maturin]

Indeed, the similarity between some characteristics of abduction and psychedelic experiences can be uncanny, and I think what it might come down to is these states represent or symbolise, or simply are, transformative/metamorphic process(es) working on levels more subtle, yet necessarily intertwingled, with the kind of explanations and etiologies provided by a predominantly bio-physical perspective.

Author Colin Wilson (of The Outsider fame) had a very similar interpretation of this in his book Alien Dawn, from what I recall. Interesting stuff Wandjina....

technologically advanced anal-probers

[mazatec_luv]

i know that i have had many muscle spasms which i attribute to a type of synethsesia (a crossing of the senses) whereby i feel the music either through a pulsing wave from ear to ear or the music makes my leg or arm spasm when i here a certain sound, very hard to explain. it is not in any way a bad feeling though. If anyone knows more about this synethsesia then please post about especially if you have had this occur.

[GingaNinja]

Ive had similar things happen before but couldnt tell for sure if it was really happening or just in my head

felt like certain notes would make various parts of me twitch. but yeah wasnt unpleasant or anything

[DuG]

A person I herd of had a small amount of shrooms on several beers. A few hours later as he was outside a pub his legs gave from underneath him and he appeared to go unconciouss (sp), he was placed in the recovery position for a while. when he came round he was very dissoreintated. He collapsed again as he was being moved and was placed in the recovery position. He was groggy afterwards and to be on the safe side he was sent to the hospital in the back of an ambulance.

THe reasoning behind him loosing muscle control and conciuness were given as a BIG drop in blood pressure and a high BAC, (0.24). The thing was he hadn't drunk *that* much alcohol, and the amount shrooms wasn't a big dose.

His gf will not allow him near the shrooms now

[PD.]

Only one of my friends gets the "paralysis" thing, but i know of two people that have passed out when intoxicated by the mushies. A drop in blood pressure seems about right, in both cases it was in a small, very well heated room and both people stood very quickly to tell me they didnt feel too good. With this their eyes rolled back and they fell hard to the ground, very hard. There isnt much you can do, it all happened pretty quickly, and by the time you are saying "just lay down and relax", their head is hitting the ground.

It has always passed as quickly as it started though, its just a massive head spin i guess.

<___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_shroomer.gif

oh yeah, and no alcahol was consumed on these occasions, just mushies, and one of the people mentioned here has never had "those fuckin things" ever again, haha.

Edited July 28, 2006 by Passive backseat demon engine.

[occidentalis]

A few years ago I told the story of my then partner who passed out on me one night at a doof

After complaining of dizziness she sat down and rested for a while as I vagued out and tripped out on the various pretty things nearby... a few minutes later I wondered why all these people were staring at us strangely and I looked down to find her unconscious, slumped over, with her tongue hanging out... I shook her around and woke her up and she seemed OK after that.

It seems to affect girls much more strongly than boys as other female friends have experienced it a few times. I've had the feeling that it was happening (weakness, headspins) but it has never progressed further than that.

[wandjina]

It seems to affect girls much more strongly than boys as other female friends have experienced it a few times. I've had the feeling that it was happening (weakness, headspins) but it has never progressed further than that.

curious, haven't heard that before....some empirical research may be in order.

I'm willing to volunteer

[alkatrope]

Interesting comments about low blood pressure and headspins..

When it happened to foaf the other week, they felt 100% mentally (besides the usual effects) but just had complete loss of voluntary movement..

[occidentalis]

It seems to affect girls much more strongly than boys as other female friends have experienced it a few times. I've had the feeling that it was happening (weakness, headspins) but it has never progressed further than that.

curious, haven't heard that before....some empirical research may be in order.

I'm willing to volunteer

At that time T suggested that low blood sugar was the culprit and that females were more affected due to smaller average body size (SA:Vol) - in the cold, they need to burn more sugars to stay warm. This makes sense in explaining what happened that night, which was a very cold one. However since then my feeling and the general consensus seems to be that hypotension is a more likely cause. Is there a relationship between these problems?

There are many people in this thread discussing similar symptoms so (unless you're all actually girls) I think it's safe to say both sexes are affected.

ahh, here it is... from back in the day ;)

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...?showtopic=7563

[PD.]

Interesting comments about low blood pressure and headspins..

When it happened to foaf the other week, they felt 100% mentally (besides the usual effects) but just had complete loss of voluntary movement..

The friend i mentioned that gets the paralysis is in no way unconsious or heading that way. He usually ends up just laying down with his angry head on(his usual head wear).

The others that passed out, did exactly that, pass out. It was only for a very short time and only one of the two people i mentioned that passed out, had a negative experience, the other dude came to with a smile <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png .

It is like the mushies were "telling" these people not to get too worked up, just relax and go with it.

Like they have told me before........ "Just be".

[Torsten]

The paralysis and the passing out are two very different conditions. It is likely they are both due to excess serotonin, but their mechanisms would be quite different.

I have low blood pressure and am easily affected by anything that lowers bp. I have never had problems with mushrooms in that regard. Other drugs that cause bp fluctuation (such as MDMA) are quite likely to cause syncope, but usually only in the early stages (come up phase).

Generally, problems that arise towards the end of a trip (ie at least 2 hours into it) are more likely to be due to blood sugar levels.

Creach, in your partner's case the following is rather tell tale:

she loses physical strength, becomes panicky and eventually blacks out.

It is the typical progression of a hypoglycemic state. Loss of strength is due to lack of glucose, the body tries to compensate by triggering adrenaline (the back up mechanism if the glucagon system fails or is exhausted). if this fails to provide more glucose then the brain shuts down. Sometimes the adrenaline rush comes too late and is overtaken by glucose consumption. ie, the last glucose is used up before the adrenaline can make more available. This latter scenario is probably what happened in your partner's case, which is why she was fine afterwards (the adrenaline provided for enough glucose after the syncope).

[ballzac]

A FOAF has experienced this to a degree, about six or seven hours after ingestion, after most of the psychological effects had worn off. He experiences muscular 'spasms' - that manifest as an inability to do fine movements like using a computer mouse, and also tension in the face when laughing - on a regular basis. On this occassion however, he was unable to walk, and the experience made him decide to never take mushrooms in an environment that he might want to leave. He put it down to the fact that it was a day-shroom (eight o'clock in the morning), and quite an intense one at that. Having not done any physical activity before ingestion, his legs wouldn't have been ready for an experience that often makes him feel like he's run a marathon. He is glad, however, that he never get's painful cramps in his legs, like one of his friends does.

He also had a friend who passed out on a small amount of mushrooms, but I don't think it was a low blood-pressure thing like marijuana smokers and anaemics can experience. This friend just seemed to space out. I think it was more of a psychological, as opposed to physiological, thing. But this FOAF didn't quiz him much about it and therefore isn't sure.

[Torsten]

he never get's painful cramps in his legs, like one of his friends does.

For anyone suffering from cramps, here is a really simple solution.

Cramps are due to electrolyte imbalance. This can becaused by excessive sweating, excercise or high sodium (eg salt or sodium nitrite) intake. Many products on the market temporarily fix the problem by adding even more sodium (eg gatorade), while others charge $20 for a few low dose magnesium pills. It's all wrong.

Simply get yourself some 'celtic salt' from the healthfood shop. It costs about $15 kilo, but you can usually get it in smaller packs too. During winter take a pinch of it once or twice a week and always as soon as you feel a twinge in your muscle. In summer take it more regularly - depending on how much you sweat.

Celtic salt is salt that contains all the minerals that are in the ocean. It is very similar in composition to blood plasma - hence the balancing effect.

Do not buy normal 'sea salt', as this has most things removed and is usually just pure sodium chloride.

If you do your own cooking then simply use celtic salt in cooking and you won't need to supplement any. Celtic salt in small doses has been shown in several overseas studies to be safe for sodium sensitive individuals (eg high blood pressure patients) as the other minerals in celtic salt actually help the body to eliminate sodium. My dad has to take lots of meds to keep his bp stable after a triple bypass and a perforated aorta. These meds (esp the diuretics) cause really bad cramps and the docs were powerless to do anything about them. When I found out about it I told him to take one pinch of celtic salt and the only time he now gets cramps is when he forgets to take the celtic salt.

Do not overdo the supplementation. Taking more than a pinch at once can cause vomitting especially if taken with water. I find the best way is to put it in capsules, or to get large crystals which are easily swallowed without dissolving too much. Celtic salt does not taste as sharp and as nasty as table salt.

Celtic salt also cures 'eccy back' instantly.

btw, a sure way to make animals and humans vomit is to give them a glass of warm salt water.

[BlackDragon]

Im just wondering if subaeruginosa is the only fungi that is causing this?

Are people reporting these experiences from cubensis or other sp. also?

There could be another active thats causing this, rather than the psil's alone.....

.....an accumilation of formed metabolites?

Interesting, I have herd numerous "body/muscle" effects from subs but very rarely from cubes or others....

[spiders]

The paralysis and muscle weakness seems to be exclusively caused by lignious or wood-loving species = its very common from Ps.azurescens - infact this is the only mushroom ive ever personally seen this with. And interestingly this was a girl who experience this as well.

Ps.cyanescens and Ps.subaeruginosa are all fairly similar to azurescens so im not surprised that its reported from them as well.

Im not really sure what the cause is, but it seems quite unrelated to other symptoms like blackouts, dizziness, fainting, and other symptoms of sympathetic overactivity.

I dont think its caused any serious permanent issues in anyone, and im asssuming its caused either by the potency of this particular mushroom group or by something that the mushroom extracts from the wood substrates. Ive never heard of it with dung or grass loving species. (which i now prefer)

Blood pressure is a strange thing - mushrooms shoot of a large amount of norepinephrine and this can have a paradoxical affect on blood pressure - particularly postural blood pressure. It can dilate blood vessels causing dizziness, heart rate abnormalities and generally feeling out of it.

A lot of people who smoke pot think they are having a panic attack when they are sitting there and their heart starts thumping excessively, but they dont realise that THC causes postural hypotension - and the bodies natural response to a sudden drop in blood pressure is shooting off norepinephrine/noradrenalin which excellerates the heart rate, causes anzxiety, flushing, trembling hands, etc - but as ive stated above it actually worsens the hypotensive state like a vicious cycle.

I dont know if you can handle THC torsten, but since my blood pressure thing turned up it makes me feel dizzy as fuck for days afterwards.

And as Torsten suggests, hightened sympathetic overactivity tends to cause blood sugar issues as well - causing similar symptoms.

Edited July 29, 2006 by bluemeanie

[Maturin]

Forgive me if this is a stoopid question...

A FOAF has only ever accidently consumed magic shrooms once, he thinks they were cubensis, but it was some time ago and he didn't pick the shrooms, and his knowledge of such was even more limited back then as to now (he basically knows very little).

He didn't feel any paralysis (although apparently there were many other effects, )...but he is wondering, if these paralysis effects are heightened by the dosage...eg, the more shrooms, the more pronounced the paralysis, or if this is irrelevant and only pertains to the person's current 'body chemistry'? (for lack of a better terminology)

[spiders]

according to stamets its dosage dependent, but the one time i encoutnered it the dosage was a very low one.