Galerina vs Psilos in Vic

[Coschi]

Hey hey

I just had a look around today and am pretty confident what I came across were subs; little bit of blue staining and all the right signs. Then I started looking around the net today and came across some pics of Galerinas (marginata in particular) which look scarily close to subs.

When i've been looking i've seen those little dark caramel capped ones with a matching colour stem and gills, and another that looks similar that is a little more reddish and translucent. Are these galerinas? I've done heaps of google image searches but I can't quite come to a definitive conclusion. I'm hoping to hear from people in Vic who are more experienced with this type of stuff

Thanks

Edit: here are some search pics of what i'm talking about

They're all galerinas apparently!!

And some subs:

Comparing those subs to pic 2 of the Galerinas.. eeshh

So what exactly are we looking for when it comes to differences?

Edited May 18, 2008 by Coschi

[genki]

an obvious difference should be the presence of a clearly defined annulus. if you look at pictures 1, 2 and 3 you will notice a ring around the stem below the cap (called an annulus). this is typical of gallerina's but should not be present on subs which is evident in picture 4. differences like this can be hard to pick up on at first but spend a little time with the right mushrooms and the wrong ones start to stick out like a sore thumb.

spore print is another indicator, always print mushrooms you are unsure about - its not a bad practise even with those you are positive about, at the very least it will give you something to trade.

no annulus + blue bruising + purple/brown spore print = more than likely subs, a clear photo should get positive confirmation.

rusty brown spore print or any other colour and you should ditch them immediately.

edit: im sure there are others just none id care to comment on while drunk, im sure someone can elaborate (if not ill do tomorrow) on other differences. do gallerinas have a separable gelatinous pellicul? hygrophanous (is that even the right word)?

Edited May 18, 2008 by genki

[Undergrounder]

what he said.. :thumbup:

Galerina: ring, rust brown print, no blueing

Sub: no ring, purple brown print, blueing

But on the Galerina, be careful sometimes the ring can rub off

Also see the Galerina can have brownish marks on the stem, the sub never really has brown marks, if there are marks they're usually grey or blue. Usually.

[Evil Genius]

Galerinas grow in the company of Psilocybes. Apply these rules on ALL of your finds! Its possible that some Galerinas can grow inside a group of Psilocybes! Stamets posted a Pic of them growing directly beside each other!

[MindExpansion]

Scary stuff, buts its safe to say that Galerinas do not bruise blue yeh?

I know that not everything that bruises blue is edible/magic, are boletes the only other thing to bruise blue?

Peace,

Mind

[alkatrope]

Gills is usually my favourite indicator.

The Galleys always have white/orange while the subs are generally brown.

[soundman]

ignore last post. was for another thread..

Edited May 19, 2008 by soundman

[baphomet]

A strange thing happened to a foaf recently, he went picking with a couple of guys who were new to mushie picking and wanted to know how to ID subs. They did strike gold but for one reason or another the mushrooms they found were on average not of the quality that he used to find when he was young (he had not been picking in over 5 years). Perhaps it was due to the fact that it was still early in the season or the drought or something but the mushrooms on average were smaller, lighter and softer than they used to be, strangest of all was the fact that the bluing was very slight in most cases often limiting itself to just around the rim and perhaps a little on the gills. The mushrooms he remembers were far more impressive and turned a deep shade of blue wherever his fingers had touched them even lightly but this time he was purposely bruising them to get a reaction but not a lot was happening in most cases (although admittedly some that he barely touched went extremely blue).

This was very bad timing as one of his primary reasons for going was to show some people how to correctly identify them and he had a feeling that perhaps they expected them to turn smurf blue in no time and he thinks that maybe they were still a little unsure, which he doesn't blame them for at all. People should understand that IMO the shade of blue is often a gun metal blue on the stem and sort of a tattoo ink greeny blue around the gills and may not be the fluro smurf blue that one might expect. ID'ing mushrooms can be a tricky business sometimes and I would personally hate to see this thread die out, I think it should be as thorough as possible so that we can give people a good reference point when they ask for ID's in future.

So my question is, has anyone had a similar experience before? And if so what do you think might be the reason??

"Also see the Galerina can have brownish marks on the stem, the sub never really has brown marks, if there are marks they're usually grey or blue. Usually."

I know this is usually the case and galerinas are often orange but included below is a picture someone uploaded here a while ago which has an orange/brown stem (I hope they don't mind me posting this) what say you? Is this a sub??

"rusty brown spore print or any other colour and you should ditch them immediately."

There is also a photo someone else uploaded which is apparently sporeprints of subs, now I know it is hard to see properly but they don't look very purple to me, do you think they are really subs? (once again I hope they don't mind me posting the photo)

Included below is a picture of a sporeprint apparently from Psilocybe cubensis Hanoi, as you can see it is brown/black, should I ditch it immediately? I know the person who gave it too me is a member here and I would be interested to hear what he has to say about it.

A foaf just tried to sporeprint one of the subs he got recently (for the first time) and he says that it is more of a brown print really and could hardly be described as purple but it did leave a slightly blue smudge on the paper. The mushroom was from the shit batch he got recently though and he may well be partially colour blind but I'd like to hear what you guys have to say.

Are the rules really as clearly defined as we would like to think?

Edited May 20, 2008 by baphomet

[alkatrope]

I'm yet to see a "purple" sub print, from my experience they're usually a pretty dark brown.

[Undergrounder]

This response is too long for it's own good, but anyway...

There's no way the rules are water tight, IME mushrooms are really really variable, especially subs.. You can't describe them by shape at all because the caps vary wildly... Like you i've also found some that havent't blued at all, but they were still subs. The prints i would describe as anything from almost black sometimes to dark brown, but the purple is there, if only slightly. Compare the brown/purple sub print it to an Agaricus print which is dark brown without the purple. Or compare a blackish/purple sub print to a coprinus, which is jet black also without the purple.

And yeah i have seen pictures of subs with brown bases to the stems, hence the underlined usually. I've never seen this though in person, the stems have always been very very cottony white to me with blue streaks or greyish marks. I think its an environmental feature. Since the lookalike Galerinas, Strophs, Bolbitius and Hyphalomas (all chiplovers) usually do have brownish marks, i think that's a decent basic distinguishing feature.

But yeah there's a 5% exception for just about every rule, nothing beats having them in your hand so you just have to get to know the right 'look' personally. Like a white stem is one thing but a white, thick stem, hollow or pithy, perhaps with one or two slight kinks and that fine cottony texture is the real indicator - but how can you describe that to someone who's never held one in their hand before? rules don't do it justice. That pic of a sub(?) for instance has strange (IMO) colouring at the bottom of the stem, but you can see the white dotted remnants of the partial veil around the edge of the cap that are indicative of Stropharias.. so you'd know it is a Stropharia or Psilocybe of some kind, but how would you know that if you've never founda few thousand Strophs with those same white dots? I think that's why ID requests are vital until you find em for yourself a few times

[cycle]

Smell is a good indicator too but only once you've got some experience obviously so not useful for you sorry.

Also I have found in the past that while gallerinas and subs tend to come up in the same places they flush at different times. I've come back to patches to find them full of gallerina and a week or two later it's sub city.

[Zen Peddler]

Subs do have purple prints - if you do a light print is usually looks pretty purple before it darkens through time a dull purplish brown. The variant Ps.eucalypta has a browner spore print than the more classic sub with lageniform cystidia.

I looked for the blue staining originally. Gallerina and Aurantiaca may look similar to the untrained eye but they dont stain blue at all. The stem should be whitish/grey with bluish/green markings sometimes, the gills should be lightish to darkish chestnut in colour, the cap quite similar to gallerina in colour, with occasional blue staining.

subs stain a darker inky blue than US continental species and im not sure why this is.